No Assists For F1 2017 League?

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No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Zephyr » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:04 pm

I was just wondering why the F1 2017 league is being run without assists. Im just curious why there was no poll or discussion about this before this announcement.  (also is the forum locked on purpose?)


edit: also will it now be broadcasted? there is going to be dedicated spectator slots in F1 2017 so it wont hurt the size of the field.

edit 2: im not worried about no ABS and TC that much, i just wish racing line was allowed because i do not know the braking points on most of the tracks.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Zephyr » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:24 pm

update: pat answered a lot of my questions in steam already. He or someone else can give an update later if they like.

TLDR: Everything is still in discussion, not final
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by jeromef1 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:43 pm

The forum is locked because F1 2017 signups are not up yet!

Why only no assist?
This idea is under our mind since a few months (the management team). We have mainly decided to switch because of the amount of Stewards Protest received. We always have a lot of drama on track with F1 championships and we received between 10 to 20 protest per week. It is too much and start to be ridiculous. I'm afraid that soon enough, it will tarnish the reputation of PRL which I can't accept to happen. Porential new members will browse for PRL videos on Youtube and if they are seeing bad driving, bump, dive bomb, etc.. they will not joined. We needed to stop that. After reviewing a lot of videos the PC community shared, there is A LOT of bump and dive bomb on track. Most of the issues are from drivers who use assist because they overdrive the car. With brake assist and traction control, it's an arcade car so the drivers drive like an arcade game. Non assist and assist drivers don't have the same braking point because of the assist. Not all drivers are in that situation, but it will take too much time for us to determine the faulty drivers and ask them to leave. After discussion, we are pretty sure that if everyone start practicing now without assist, they will be more careful on track and it will provide a better racing experience.

Why console championships are still all assists?
Because they have more controller drivers on console, and we usually have less protest from console driver. But maybe we may be force to do the same for console in the future if needed.

Here is my personnal opinion
I'll be honest, I'm keeping those championships alive only because I have dedicated organisers that are willing to organise it. F1 20xx is not a serious game, it's an arcade game, and in addition, online netcode is very bad. We have had very good and successfull championships with F1 2013, but since F1 2014, it's worst and worst. If Codemasters would have worked well, they would have made assist drivers slower than non assist (like in iRacing), but no... Without those dedicated members who works to keep everything alive, I would have stop supporting that game a while ago! Knowing now that we have a lot of drama on track with this game, and the fact it's an arcade game, let's try to bring it at a more serious level; no assist! That way the championship will look more serious and only dedicated drivers who want to put time to practice will be there. I know we might loose members because of that, but I accept that if it brings better racing experience for drivers who put the effort to drive and/or learn driving without assist.

I just hope that starting now, everyone will take the time to start driving without assist!

PRL is more than healty, so even if we don't have enough signups for APCC, EPCC and SAPCC, I don't mind cancelling those championships and move on to a next chapter. But I would rather want it to work!!
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by piboye » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:59 pm

I think it would be good to have a broader discussion (or a poll) about this before changing it next season. I was attracted to this league because it allowed for a good range of driving abilities with good battles up and down the field (and because I couldn't have picked a more perfect race time). I haven't played racing games nearly as long as most on this forum and am still working on improving. I spend several hours each week preparing for each race. I do all of this practice with no assists. However, I still make enough silly mistakes or spin out when on worn tires that I use medium traction control during our races. The last thing I want is to be side by side with someone, use a touch too much throttle, and end their race by spinning out into them. I doubt I get much advantage by using it (since I still race as if I have no assists), but it is a small handicap to help me keep it clean and have more fun while I still improve.

Also, didn't I hear somewhere that F1 2017 is trying to make using assists slightly disadvantageous like other games?
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by jeromef1 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:49 pm

If F1 2017 balance the assist well, it's the best time to switch no assist. I know a lot of drivers that have switched from with assist to without assist when a new game comes. I understand that it can be hard to switch while you are use to a driving style. But with a new game, it's the best time to switch.

If we are allowing all assist on the signups, then people will not even try without assist, they will take the easy way and take with assist...

Why are we not doing a poll? Because I already know the results... We want to remove the assist because there is too much drama and crashes in PC league. I'm pretty sure that running without assist will balance everything. I'm racing a lot in iRacing and there is WAAAYYYYY less crash and there is no assist on iRacing.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by nickthequick » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:42 am

I am on the fence with this as well, because I do not want the league to have poor attendance.  However Jerome makes some pretty good points.  Non-assisted drivers at one point also used all the assists, but at one point they all decided to stop at the start of a new game.  (I know this was the case for Darklol and myself)  

This is the perfect opportunity for drivers to do that.

The nature of these cars is that they will have much better traction and some youtubers testing the beta have noted that running no assists is faster for the game anyway so you might have to turn them off if you want to win!  It all depends on how the developers decide to launch the game, because this is how 2016 was until they decided to make it more user friendly.

The racing line can be a dangerous thing.  It only tells you when to brake under good conditions, but it does not tell you to brake say for T1 lap 1 when there is a full grid and the braking marker should be much earlier.  As video evidence has shown some people just keep looking at the line and divebomb, and then when they are off the racing line they have no idea when to brake.


To ween yourself off the line, all you need to do is go to TT, load up a fast ghost and take a look at when you need to brake.  To be honest I always have to reaffirm my braking points each week with practice and I have been racing for years with Codies games.

The new handling model is going to give even experienced users a reset.  We were discussing this with Tron last night.  When the new game comes out we are spinning out left and right, but that is how you learn the limits of the car.

So word of advise, Jerome has made the decision so that is how it should be.  When you get the game just play it with the assists off and never turn them on.  You will be surprised how you learn.  Yes at first it might be frustrating, but seriously with a little time its gonna be so much better and more fulfilling.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by LAcadien » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:18 am

im game to try it but i already tried it with 2016 and im dangerous on the track without assist lolll.. anyway like i said, ill try it but if i cant get the hang of it, ill resign.. my work ask me alot of my time and sadly i cant practice like i would like too
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Darklol » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:37 pm

Here's my personal take on all this:

First of let's say F1 2017 makes the Assists slower than using without assists. What if they make it a huge difference ? Most of you will switch to driving without assists and try it to get faster right ?

We had this discussion for many years so far and I like that it's about time PRL switches to No assists.

So take into account that this will be a new game and a part from myself, Nick, Tron and Megaman sorry if I missed anyone else drive without assists so pretty much will be in the same boat learning the new game and learning to drive without assists. So everyone will have their struggles and there will be some nice fights.

I've been through this same process, been driving F1 2010 and 2011 with full TC, ABS and racing line. Switched to no assists in 2012 and since then never looked back. It's about time guys, even more the guys who have been playing this game for many years now, if all the time you have put in the games you were driving without assists you would be mastering it.

I don't get it when people spend from 300$ to 1000$ on sim racing hardware to be driving in a way you go full throttle and full brake.

I'm totally backing the decision for sure and it's about time.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Darklol » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:45 pm

LAcadien wrote: im game to try it but i already tried it with 2016 and im dangerous on the track without assist lolll.. anyway like i said, ill try it but if i cant get the hang of it, ill resign.. my work ask me alot of my time and sadly i cant practice like i would like too
LAcadien, you say you are dangerous because you are trying to match your assist speed and times right off the bat. If you start with F1 2017 when you open the game go without assists you will get used to it. Even if the first races you are slow well you will get up the speed during the season and once again like I said, you will not be the only one struggling.

Everyone get this right, it's not like we are moving you guys to a group of drivers are used to No assists. No, most of you will be struggling and will get better and will master it. Think about real F1 drivers, Lance Stroll was over driving the car he's getting better with it now. You guys need to give yourselves time and not quit after the first time in Time Trial and right after the first spin.

If you guys knew, every year I open the new game and I tell to myself I can't drive anymore, I can't control the car... well yes it happens on every single game until I get used to the feeling of the car, the grip, the setups.

Keep in mind, you cannot go full throttle out of corners or full brakes into a corner that's definitely wrong. 

Myself and Nick will be glad to help anyone who wants to learn and wants advise once we get used to the new game.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:22 pm

LAcadien wrote: im game to try it but i already tried it with 2016 and im dangerous on the track without assist lolll.. anyway like i said, ill try it but if i cant get the hang of it, ill resign.. my work ask me alot of my time and sadly i cant practice like i would like too
this is what im worried about. without ABS i feel that i will mess up some corners and that will ruin my race or possibly other people's race if people are locking up all the time.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:30 pm

Darklol wrote: Here's my personal take on all this:

First of let's say F1 2017 makes the Assists slower than using without assists. What if they make it a huge difference ? Most of you will switch to driving without assists and try it to get faster right ?

We had this discussion for many years so far and I like that it's about time PRL switches to No assists.

So take into account that this will be a new game and a part from myself, Nick, Tron and Megaman sorry if I missed anyone else drive without assists so pretty much will be in the same boat learning the new game and learning to drive without assists. So everyone will have their struggles and there will be some nice fights.

I've been through this same process, been driving F1 2010 and 2011 with full TC, ABS and racing line. Switched to no assists in 2012 and since then never looked back. It's about time guys, even more the guys who have been playing this game for many years now, if all the time you have put in the games you were driving without assists you would be mastering it.

I don't get it when people spend from 300$ to 1000$ on sim racing hardware to be driving in a way you go full throttle and full brake.

I'm totally backing the decision for sure and it's about time.
About your point that some people have been racing for years, for many of us, F1 2016 is our first F1 game. For example me and my teammate only had this game about a month or so before the league started and we both have only had racing wheels for a few months. Not all of us are experience in sim racing and we are still learning to get good without assists
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by AaronWebb85 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:31 pm

It's going to be a change in driving habits for sure. I am an assists driver and I am making the switch for 2017. My championship isn't even requiring the change as it's on a console. I know I will take a lot of practice to get even close to where I was on pad and with assists. But as others have said, a new game with a new handling model is the perfect time to do it. Everyone will be relearning the cars. Obviously someone new to no assists will take longer, but if you give yourself a chance it may make you an even better and faster driver in the long run.

Most leagues out there do not allow any assists. We have been one of the few that does, and I feel it has brought in a number of drivers who show up each week 30 mins before the race asking, "where are we racing this week." This is ridiculous because it means they have done NO practice. Even with assists you should be practicing the track to find the limits. Going with no assists will certainly weed out those drivers and in turn improve the quality of the racing.

I fully support the sites decision to make the change. And if all console players were on wheels, we'd be making the change there as well.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Darklol » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:46 pm

I kind of agree with Aaron there. If you sign up for an online league you have to give some dedication to learn the track and the car. A reason why we get so much incidents this year its probably because people don't need to do it, they go on track follow the line that's it.

The game is not even out and no one hasn't even tried it so let's wait until then.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Darklol » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:54 pm

Zephyr wrote:
Darklol wrote: Here's my personal take on all this:

First of let's say F1 2017 makes the Assists slower than using without assists. What if they make it a huge difference ? Most of you will switch to driving without assists and try it to get faster right ?

We had this discussion for many years so far and I like that it's about time PRL switches to No assists.

So take into account that this will be a new game and a part from myself, Nick, Tron and Megaman sorry if I missed anyone else drive without assists so pretty much will be in the same boat learning the new game and learning to drive without assists. So everyone will have their struggles and there will be some nice fights.

I've been through this same process, been driving F1 2010 and 2011 with full TC, ABS and racing line. Switched to no assists in 2012 and since then never looked back. It's about time guys, even more the guys who have been playing this game for many years now, if all the time you have put in the games you were driving without assists you would be mastering it.

I don't get it when people spend from 300$ to 1000$ on sim racing hardware to be driving in a way you go full throttle and full brake.

I'm totally backing the decision for sure and it's about time.
About your point that some people have been racing for years, for many of us, F1 2016 is our first F1 game. For example me and my teammate only had this game about a month or so before the league started and we both have only had racing wheels for a few months. Not all of us are experience in sim racing and we are still learning to get good without assists
I agree there's some of you that started but there's a big bunch that play for many years.

Like I said, I started by playing Career learning the game, 2010 and 2011 was with full assists, moved to 2012 without assists was still only playing career then decided to go into an Online League in 2013. First year, rookie season wasn't that bad got to win one race without any assists but god I felt proud of myself battling without assists with of the top guys. I was expecting to be battling for top 10 but managed to finish P2 in the championship. Second season with 2013 managed to win the title without assists once again. Close fight with many drivers. 

Personally I can't understand how you can play a racing game with assists if you own a wheel. You want traction control, well it's right there and it's called right foot. You want ABS it's also right there, called left foot. As for the racing line, enable it in TT do a few laps once you get your muscle memory about braking and turning just take the line off.

If I was able to move from full assists to drive without them it means in my head everyone can. 
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:04 pm

AaronWebb85 wrote: It's going to be a change in driving habits for sure. I am an assists driver and I am making the switch for 2017. My championship isn't even requiring the change as it's on a console. I know I will take a lot of practice to get even close to where I was on pad and with assists. But as others have said, a new game with a new handling model is the perfect time to do it. Everyone will be relearning the cars. Obviously someone new to no assists will take longer, but if you give yourself a chance it may make you an even better and faster driver in the long run.

Most leagues out there do not allow any assists. We have been one of the few that does, and I feel it has brought in a number of drivers who show up each week 30 mins before the race asking, "where are we racing this week." This is ridiculous because it means they have done NO practice. Even with assists you should be practicing the track to find the limits. Going with no assists will certainly weed out those drivers and in turn improve the quality of the racing.

I fully support the sites decision to make the change. And if all console players were on wheels, we'd be making the change there as well.
What u are saying must only happen on console. Pretty much all of us still practice even tho we use assists.

Edit:  Also, a lot of PC players use controllers as well which is why im confused with this new rule on PC but not on console. I only got a wheel 2 or 3 months ago and my teammate go his less than a month ago. Just because we play on PC does not me all of us are on wheels
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Darklol » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:33 pm

Zephyr, I've been with PRL since F1 2013 and trust me PC is mostly wheels. One year we even had Gamepads banned since it was a huge advantage.

Why don't you just try driving without assists in the new game first when it gets released ? I don't understand all the drama when no one tried it.

Anyway decision was made. Those who wants to switch to no assists and want to practice or need help, we can setup a practice session during the week. I'm sure Nick would be glad to help too. Feel free to reach to me or Nick.
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by jeromef1 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:44 pm

Also, about people joining the lobby 30 minutes before qualifying and asking "what's the track". They shouldn't be invite because in the signups thread, it's written that you must practice a minimum of 2 hours per week. By signing up, you accept those conditions ;)
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:55 pm

jeromef1 wrote: Also, about people joining the lobby 30 minutes before qualifying and asking "what's the track". They shouldn't be invite because in the signups thread, it's written that you must practice a minimum of 2 hours per week. By signing up, you accept those conditions ;)
ive never heard anyone ever say that in this league or anything similar
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by jeromef1 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:05 pm

Zephyr wrote:
jeromef1 wrote: Also, about people joining the lobby 30 minutes before qualifying and asking "what's the track". They shouldn't be invite because in the signups thread, it's written that you must practice a minimum of 2 hours per week. By signing up, you accept those conditions ;)
ive never heard anyone ever say that in this league or anything similar
That's perfect then!! ;)
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Re: No Assists For F1 2017 League?

Post by DEADZERO » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:27 pm

So I'm late to this party but I want to point a few things out. I'm glad my hand is being forced to go to no assists, the learning curve is long but at least I'm not alone. This gives me the chance to learn and still be competitive. I was surprised when I saw the NO ASSISTS but I was excited at the same time. I am backing this up 100% even as an assist user. I always trust Jeromes decisions because I know he thought them out fully before announcing it.
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