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Steering Wheels & Gamepads

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Yes!!!  Wheel FTW too! ^^
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First, each control method has its own pros and cons. Certainly some things are easier with one where others are easier with the other. Without getting into too much detail, in general quicker changes in inputs are easier with the gamepad, where finer control and corrections are easier with the wheel. I've pretty much always used the pad in the multiplayer of this game, partly due to not having my wheel when i started playing 2012, and then due to playing iracing when i did get the g27, and it was easier to not have to switch between the games with the wheel. But i have played quite a bit offline going gp's with a wheel in the past, albeit not recently. I don't believe there is any objective potential for more pace with one input or the other, they each have their merits and depends on the driver etc which may work better, and obviously the time put into it has an effect as well.

As far as banning the pads, I would not agree. This is not something I am against in general, it's just the timing. If this had been known before signups, trials and everything, then fine. But at this point I don't have the time or energy to retrain myself on the wheel at such short notice. In addition I know I'm not the only one using a pad, and having to change at this kind of notice means that all the muscle memory etc for the tracks for these people is essentially gone, Giving them an unfair disadvantage in the short term, and possible screwing much of the system of division assignments.

Obviously I'm not the deciding factor here, but that's my two cents.
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I'd love to use a wheel, but cannot afford one as of yet. I'm stuck using a controller. 
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I agree with Corrosive, having only ever used a pad as I don't have the room necessary for a wheel having would would make me feel at a disadvantage.

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I'm using wheel exclusively but I am not for banning pads.
The main reason is what Corrosive said, that it is too late to do now. As many drivers in the league have always raced with a pad it is unfair especially on this short notice. Also it would make them beginners which would mess up the division assignments and force them to change device (in many cases force them to buy a wheel).
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Disperse said

The main reason is what Corrosive said, that it is too late to do now.

That's the way I feel too.

I don't have a wheel, but I like the idea of everyone competing on completely equal levels. But at this point people who switched to wheel would be at a huge disadvantage.
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Slavic_Donut said

Disperse said

The main reason is what Corrosive said, that it is too late to do now.

That's the way I feel too.

I don't have a wheel, but I like the idea of everyone competing on completely equal levels. But at this point people who switched to wheel would be at a huge disadvantage.

well, for those that actually have a wheel already, there is still quite some time to practice before the first race in Australia.  If you have a wheel, you obviously use it in other games, it won't be your first time with a wheel.  You don't need to re-learn how to drive, or the tracks, it's just a matter of getting used to how F1 2013 feels, which should take a few hours of racing, not a few weeks.  The turn in points, braking points, setups, all remain the same, one 50% race would probably be enough.  Infact you could probably just rock up to the pre-season and by the end of the race you'd be just about up to speed.  Probably fairly equivalent to a wheel user going from a G27 to a fanatec for example.

For those that don't have a wheel, yes, I agree it is definitely not enough time to go research, decide on a wheel, and get it sent out and setup.  That could well take a week on it's own, and you would still have to ramp up, which would also take longer.  It also isn't fair to force people to go purchase hardware, so I fully understand the people in this situation.

Also note this isn't a rule, or an official ban, it's just a honor system style request so that as many of us as possible are on the same playing field.  If you don't have a wheel, can't get one, can't afford one, I don't think any of us would mind you continuing to use a pad, we'd definitely rather have you be on track than on the sidelines.  But if you have a wheel, you should be using it, and If you want one, I highly encourage you to get one, you won't regret it, it definitely makes the racing far more immersive! :)


Wheel VS Pad Logic :

In terms of whether a pad is faster, it's near impossible to quantify, but as brent stated, you can definitely make steering inputs far quicker with a pad, and it is pretty clear that with codemasters physics this results in an advantage, which is more pronounced at some tracks than others.  At the same time it is harder to be accurate with fine changes, which does make it harder to be consistent on a pad, and is a huge challenge, but if you have mastered it enough to be competing in D1 you've probably learnt to deal with this.  Theoretically it is possible to get only the benefits without the negatives if you have god like thumb control :P  The fact that some of us have wheels and choose to use a pad would seem support the theory that it is possible to overcome this disadvantage.

Either way, there is no disputing that at that very least they are not equal.  That means that we aren't all competing on the same level playing field.  This is the key point, and if we really want to all be on an equal playing field, which is the whole point of a league, we should all ideally be using wheels.  This is just my opinion, and we aren't trying to sabotage anyone.  If you need more time to ramp up, take it, but overall I think it makes more sense for us all to be using wheels as it completely removes the question of an advantage from a pad.
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Well said, iceman.  I want to really emphasize something that iceman touched on regarding the advantages of one vs the other.

As has been mentioned, the controller allows faster changes in inputs (left/right), but finesse changes are more difficult.  The thing is, they're not impossible.  You can learn to be as smooth as you can with a wheel (or at least close enough so any differences are insignificant to the game), but you can never get input changes with a wheel that match the speed at which you can perform the input changes with a controller.  That's where the disadvantage is to wheel users.  The same is even true to being able to get on/off the throttle.  I can do that so much faster with my fingers than with my feet, and it actually makes it easier to avoid wheel spin, and especially easy to catch the back end from sliding.

I also agree that two weeks was plenty time to become familiar with using a wheel again.
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duplicate post, sorry

Last edit: by crizano

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BossW said

I am a pad player. Even in f1 2010, f1 2011, 2012 and now 2013 i always use a pad and i don't have a wheel. But if someone show me numbers or a real test that a pad is faster than a wheel for real, i will "understand", because i don't know why we can have it. Even in codemasters official championship we have wheels and pads playing, and i don't see wheel players saiying that, only that famous words "wanna be fast, buy a wheel". Is a litttle bit unfair with us, because we need more practice, every corner is different, we can't control the apex perfectly like a wheel, also we see 5/10 fast pad players each 100 hot laps.

 :$  good controller is little ahead of wheel , u might not feel like race-car driver when u r in game ,but u will be little faster. The response time of controller is bit faster and it also have quick correct respond ratio vs. the wheel…..means that u be not able to recover your mistake that well if u have wheel.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4KXCAaNibxg
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Guess we could set a deadline for wheel only use. Say by Spain which is MORE than enough time i would imagine. I would imagine it being close but not totally 100% similar to what i went through going from a 10 year old wheel to a g27 mid last season. Completely and totally different feel to it but it took me about a week to get used to it since i already understood how to drive. Tuning the wheel was the hardest part. For someone like Crizano who is already in the league and does not have a wheel (obviously this is a honesty situation), i would vote for him to be grandfathered in to not using a wheel. Im not for booting someone due to not having a wheel when they already race and contribute to the league. But for those who admittedly have a wheel i see no reason why, if voted, they should not be forced to use it. But again, i hope wed all be honest in who uses what type of device for driving. Thats my take. So, time line for change. Maybe Spain. Grandfather in those without wheels. That is all. :-)

Season 5 Division 3 WDC & WCC

  Wins: 9     Podiums: 15      Poles: 6     Fast Laps: 10     Hat Tricks: 5
Season 6 Division 1
Wins: 0     Podiums: 2     Poles: 0   Fast Laps: 2    Hat Tricks: 0
Season 7 Division 1
  Wins:
0    Podiums: 2    Poles: 0    Fast Laps: 1    Hat Tricks: 0

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I plugged in a game pad to try it out, and here is the biggest thing that I noticed. 

Depending on the amount of turn you need for each corner that ends up being "full lock" so you can never actually turn too much.  The only way you turn too much his if you go in way too slow or start your turn too early. However it seems to always give the right amount of turn. 

So say the right turn takes a 30 degree angle, the game automatically makes moving the thumb stick all the way to the right 30 degrees. It is impossible to steer more than that. You can steer less. So it always gives you the exact steering angle for the turn that you need.

If the next turn is say a hairpin where you need full lock, now when you move the stick to the right it now magically turns 90 degrees.

It also means that you can't over drive the car or make a mistake in turning too much. 

I hope that makes sense on what I'm trying to describe. But I even remember code masters saying that the made the pad much more drivable for pad users as a selling point for the game. 

Now I don't want to hate on the people who use it, because honestly it would probably take me a very long time to master it and probably not be able to. it's impressive how fast you guys are using it. 

But as moogle was saying I don't think it's necessarily "equal", and I think equal is what ideally we all want in this league. Maybe we will have to separate this for next yr?  It almost ends up being a steering aid if that makes sense?  May not even be the right way to put it…. This is a really tough thing to deal with haha. 

Last edit: by nickthequick

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Yeah, i tried it last night too, you can actually get the same "steering aid" with your wheel, if you change the "Override device type" setting to "gamepad" and turn up the steering saturation a little.  It feels pretty ridiculous with a wheel, but like you say, you just have to go full lock on every corner, and the game takes the corner perfectly for you.  After a few laps I was already able to match my times, and that was using a wheel.  The only thing you need to do is turn in at the right point, at about the right speed, it's literally impossible to get understeer, which results in a pretty huge steering assist.  It's a bummer that codemasters haven't treated this like an assist, so that it can be enforced online.  

I always wondered how gamepad guys could get just the right amount of turn in and hold it through a corner, I was picturing someone with god like thumb accuracy holding the thumb stick at the exact right amount of steering input, now I know…  It basically completely removes the need to steer from the game.
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iceman153 said

Yeah, i tried it last night too, you can actually get the same "steering aid" with your wheel, if you change the "Override device type" setting to "gamepad" and turn up the steering saturation a little.  It feels pretty ridiculous with a wheel, but like you say, you just have to go full lock on every corner, and the game takes the corner perfectly for you.  After a few laps I was already able to match my times, and that was using a wheel.  The only thing you need to do is turn in at the right point, at about the right speed, it's literally impossible to get understeer, which results in a pretty huge steering assist.  It's a bummer that codemasters haven't treated this like an assist, so that it can be enforced online.  

I always wondered how gamepad guys could get just the right amount of turn in and hold it through a corner, I was picturing someone with god like thumb accuracy holding the thumb stick at the exact right amount of steering input, now I know…  It basically completely removes the need to steer from the game.

Exactly! Its not a precisioned based thing.  Thats what I thought too, until I decided to do some scientific investigation.  That's a great and horrible find you just found as well… I think this really speaks to us needing to figure out something….
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I hate to say this, but this is a huge advantage, i just attempted lap after lap with my steering wheel on my settings iv been using for a while now, then switched to this game pad setting and increased steering saturation to 30%, and improved my lap after two laps by .900 of a second. when back to normal settings couldnt even come close to that time, so there is a advantage.
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No Doubt, I think the fact that you can enable this to work with a wheel is proof that this is definitely an in game assist, it just can't be enforced online.  There is nothing stopping wheel drivers from turning it on as well to be able to compete, which we could all do, however this takes all of the fun out of the racing, just like the ABS/Traction control assists do, which is why we all voted to ban them.  

We all want D1 to be a NO ASSISTS division, and it definitely isn't fair for some drivers to have assists and some not.  I think the best solution here is to ban using anything other than "Steering Wheel" in the override device type setting on the controller settings page.  As both Gamepad and Off can give a similar assist depending on your config.

Of course enforcing this is going to be complicated, and hopefully not necessary, Honor system will play a large part, but it is possible to enforce if required.  While in garage before race we could have everyone swap to their game controller settings page while waiting to goto track, that or  In-game footage of the car understeering would be sufficient to prove the assist is off.  The assist also dampens the turn in, so evidence of the wheel reacting quickly/smoothly to minor steering inputs (while on the straights for example) is also evidence.  We could randomly request all drivers to submit evidence post-race, and in mumble before going to track always remind drivers to open up the controller settings.  Or if needed we could have a steward randomly spectate the race and look for signs of usage, and request evidence.

All of this will mean that gamepad drivers will need to either switch to a wheel (if they have one), or re-learn how to steer with a pad, it should still theoretically be possible to be just as accurate without the assist.  It is a bit soon for drivers to adapt before Melbourne, but I think we could start enforcing this at Malaysia.
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I think there is plenty of evidence here that a gamepad has an "advantage". Let's just ban gamepads altogether and close out this thread shall we?

:-)
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well, gamepads are fine, the problem is the gamepad steering setting in game, if you set device type to steering wheel you can still use a pad without the advantage.  So there is no need to ban using a pad, as long as everyone sets the device type to steering wheel it's all equal.
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crizano said

I think there is plenty of evidence here that a gamepad has an "advantage". Let's just ban gamepads altogether and close out this thread shall we?

:-)

Did you get a wheel? :P
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This is maybe one of those things where it's better to not let it become public knowledge, but Codemasters aren't the best at responding to me on Steam or through private messages, so I said screw it, I'm making a thread about this on their forums.  Maybe it needs some attention drawn to it for them to take action.

One of the most important changes needed for Online Leagues in F1 2014 - Codemasters Forums
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