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Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

**Broadcasted** | THURSDAY | Practice @ 6pm | Qualifying @ 9pm | Race @ 9:15pm (EST)
Season start on March 21st and end on May 23rd
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Mark Phile
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by Mark Phile » Thu May 02, 2019 11:17 pm

TRG wrote: Mark - I totally didn't see the mosquitoes you were trying to fog for... What the hell happened? You let Erik work on that motor??
Have no clue? All was going good, so I thought? I was actually breaking early, and lifting early to be safe, guess that was my reward :lol:   
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by TRG » Fri May 03, 2019 12:03 am

Check your telemetry if you have it. A few of us were wondering if you maybe had cooling damage. The rear of the car did have some damage too.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by DeamingPie » Fri May 03, 2019 7:13 am

I peed in the radiator...
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by eshhh » Fri May 03, 2019 7:33 am

Really disappointed with my performance there. Everything after T1 nonsense was plain old mistakes on my part though fastest with tow wasn't even under 2:01 so maybe some damage to aero holding me back? Whatever, put a ton into practice and was left holding a barely polished t3rd. Let's do it again!

Edit: t3rd....Take that, pearl clutchers!!!
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by DeamingPie » Fri May 03, 2019 8:09 am

Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn. This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident. I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it. First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him. This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early. When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on. Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him. This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all? He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future? I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap. The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers. We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun. The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit. There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy. I race because of the people I race with make it fun. Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by SharkV » Fri May 03, 2019 8:22 am

DeamingPie wrote: Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn.  This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident.  I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it.  First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him.  This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early.  When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on.  Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him.  This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all?  He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future?  I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap.  The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers.  We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun.  The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit.  There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy.  I race because of the people I race with make it fun.  Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
We had the same problem on Tuesday some season ago.   Only thing that cured it, is big penalty to guys that were to agressive that did not understand that this is a 45 minutes race, not 45 seconds.  

I don’t say that’s what we will do, but if we see that it doesn’t cure by hit self (drivers take care themselves), we may have to do something.   We are adults and know what to do to avoid this...

My comments are not intended to any specific drivers, cause it not allways  the same that cause wreck., general comment
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by paulwildridge » Fri May 03, 2019 8:26 am

DeamingPie wrote: Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn.  This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident.  I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it.  First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him.  This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early.  When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on.  Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him.  This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all?  He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future?  I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap.  The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers.  We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun.  The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit.  There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy.  I race because of the people I race with make it fun.  Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
So poetic! 😍
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by SharkV » Fri May 03, 2019 8:28 am

paulwildridge wrote:
DeamingPie wrote: Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn.  This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident.  I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it.  First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him.  This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early.  When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on.  Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him.  This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all?  He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future?  I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap.  The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers.  We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun.  The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit.  There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy.  I race because of the people I race with make it fun.  Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
So poetic! 😍
Ho,  I’ve read “so pathetic” 😛😛😛😛😛😛
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by TRG » Fri May 03, 2019 8:50 am

Well said Erik. Did your wife compose that? Seems too intelligent and well written...

Either way, you make some excellent points that I fully support. I am just here for the fun folks I would call friends (except you Owen).

Aggressive driving is fine as long as you can finish the move and choose an appropriate place to make your move. I would say is rarely what happens as we've seen many times. For myself, this has been the best season I've ever had at PRL. Why? BTR engineers put a clamp on a certain vein that keeps blood going to the larger brain of the two we all have. The result is an attitude or mindset where I am focused on finishing the race more than trying to make up positions. The positions gained tend to sort themselves out when the car is in one piece after 45 minutes.

In the end, if the front runners would consistently realize that they have the pace to battle for the win at the end rather than on L1T1 we would see a grid that remains full. Instead, the fun is ruined for a lot of drivers that get caught up in some of the ridiculous incidents or end up lapping alone because the drivers with similar pace have been wrecked out or quit due to frustrating lap one heroics.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by Mark Phile » Fri May 03, 2019 8:57 am

DeamingPie wrote: Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn.  This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident.  I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it.  First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him.  This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early.  When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on.  Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him.  This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all?  He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future?  I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap.  The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers.  We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun.  The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit.  There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy.  I race because of the people I race with make it fun.  Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
First off your not my have fun supervisor  :lol:, see what i did there  :D.

 Yup can’t agree more, I left Tuesday nights to stay racing with my buddies, and this is the way it felt in the Tuesday night series at the time as well. Last season in the Radicals I remember from my vantage point the first lap or 2 was so calm most races, no crazy stuff off starting line. We all fell in line, got the tires hot and the racing started. Just seems like now someone don’t like there qualy spot and next thing you know there they fly up the middle 3 wide. There is a reason this person is able to go 3 wide with this amazing start, it’s because us guys in front of you are being calm and mindful of the situation. Last night i had a good launch, guy in front missed the start, I figured no biggie let’s give him a second to gather and we will go “Insert buzzer sound here” wrong! Smoke, crash, night over for some, 

Would a rolling start help us maybe? I do remember the pile up issues on Tuesday’s with rolling starts though. Is this something that we can vote on, asking for a friend  :?
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by eshhh » Fri May 03, 2019 9:03 am

DeamingPie wrote: Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn.  This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident.  I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it.  First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him.  This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early.  When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on.  Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him.  This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all?  He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future?  I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap.  The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers.  We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun.  The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit.  There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy.  I race because of the people I race with make it fun.  Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
I don't have the replay as I didn't save it out of disgust. But the question that comes to mind (again) after watching a few times last night is was the overtake worth it? Start of race, cold track, T1. Why does that pass which starts after entering brake zone with zero overlap have to even take place? To me it looked like had Dave not clipped Gritsko he likely would have pulled it off but at great risk IMO.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by SharkV » Fri May 03, 2019 9:09 am

Ok guys, please stop putting blame on someone or anything and second guessing.  It takes more analysis of an incident to have a idea of what happens.  That replay file gives us all the telemetry of a race and this help stewards addressing a situation with all angles of it.

At PRL, we have a process of stewarding races,  if you feel that a situation deserve a protest , do so, even if you are not involved.  That is one way to take care of repeated situations that cause wreck.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by eshhh » Fri May 03, 2019 9:12 am

Mark Phile wrote:
DeamingPie wrote: Here's hoping to having a civil discussion so we can learn.  This is not to assign blame, or call anyone out, or make fun of Phile's unbelievably ridiculous hair cut, it's to learn.

The turn 1 incident seems to be a typical turn 1 incident.  I watched the replay and chatted with Unger and Overbay after the race about it.  First impression on the replay was Gritsko owned the part of the tarmac he was on when Unger turned into him.  This is where the fun begins.

Overbay recognized the situation and did not want to attempt going three wide into turn 1 and backed off the throttle and braked early.  When he did that Gritsko moved over and took the line Overbay was on.  Unger started the braking process for the turn and Gritsko went almost completely past him.  This is where it gets tricky.

If not for the contact, would Gritsko have made the corner at all?  He was way off the apex when contact was initiated, but this doesn't mean he couldn't have pulled it back in.

If Unger had not started his turn in, it looks as though he would have been forced straight into the kitty litter?

I of course cannot answer those questions because I don't have the telemetry to review.

So the million dollar question is, how can we avoid this in the future?  I know it can be frustrating to put the time in and not even finish a lap.  The reality is, that happens in real life racing, and is substantially more expensive.

We are not professional race car drivers.  We are a bunch of wanna-be's looking to have fun.  The moment you lose sight of the fun part, you should quit.  There's no money, no busload of trailer trash models who will do anything for $5, no trophy.  I race because of the people I race with make it fun.  Please don't lose sight of that in this conversation or on race day.
First off your not my have fun supervisor  :lol:, see what i did there  :D.

 Yup can’t agree more, I left Tuesday nights to stay racing with my buddies, and this is the way it felt in the Tuesday night series at the time as well. Last season in the Radicals I remember from my vantage point the first lap or 2 was so calm most races, no crazy stuff off starting line. We all fell in line, got the tires hot and the racing started. Just seems like now someone don’t like there qualy spot and next thing you know there they fly up the middle 3 wide. There is a reason this person is able to go 3 wide with this amazing start, it’s because us guys in front of you are being calm and mindful of the situation. Last night i had a good launch, guy in front missed the start, I figured no biggie let’s give him a second to gather and we will go “Insert buzzer sound here” wrong! Smoke, crash, night over for some, 

Would a rolling start help us maybe? I do remember the pile up issues on Tuesday’s with rolling starts though. Is this something that we can vote on, asking for a friend  :?
I don't know what the solution is other than reminding people to back off and maybe the threat of a large penalty but regardless, I will be in back of grid with you next week. That was my approach in official series when I first started racing the Radical and got me my 4.99 SR as I learned what NOT to do. The iRating only follows, if those sort of things matter to you. Goal was always to be as clean as possible.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by eshhh » Fri May 03, 2019 9:14 am

SharkV wrote: Ok guys, please stop putting blame on someone or anything and second guessing.

At PRL, we have a process of stewarding races,  if you feel that a situation deserve a protest , do so, even if you are not involved.  That is one way to take care of repeated situations that cause wreck.
Just making an observation. Gritsko nearly pulled it off and probably would have had Dave not clipped him. I don't know where the fault lies and don't care but if we're going to have a discussion about aggressive driving at the start of a race let's talk about aggressive driving at the start of the race...
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by DeamingPie » Fri May 03, 2019 9:15 am

The only way a rolling start would possibly work is if the league mandated a rule of single file start.  Now the problem is instead of having the closing speed into turn 1 at the back being 100MPH it's 120+MPH.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by DeamingPie » Fri May 03, 2019 9:19 am

SharkV wrote: Ok guys, please stop putting blame on someone or anything and second guessing.  It takes more analysis of an incident to have a idea of what happens.  That replay file gives us all the telemetry of a race and this help stewards addressing a situation with all angles of it.

At PRL, we have a process of stewarding races,  if you feel that a situation deserve a protest , do so, even if you are not involved.  That is one way to take care of repeated situations that cause wreck.
I don't think anyone is trying to assign blame, I'm certainly not.  Coming to an understanding as to why things happen helps everyone.  

Edit:  I have not seen anyone here make a mistake and not own it.  That's another reason I prefer league racing.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by SharkV » Fri May 03, 2019 9:22 am

eshhh wrote:
SharkV wrote: Ok guys, please stop putting blame on someone or anything and second guessing.

At PRL, we have a process of stewarding races,  if you feel that a situation deserve a protest , do so, even if you are not involved.  That is one way to take care of repeated situations that cause wreck.
Just making an observation. Gritsko nearly pulled it off and probably would have had Dave not clipped him. I don't know where the fault lies and don't care but if we're going to have a discussion about aggressive driving at the start of a race let's talk about aggressive driving at the start of the race...
I have no problem discussing this matter here, and hope we find a solution other than having stewards giving penalties.

First thing of everything in league racing, is we must have respect for other drivers on that track.  When I was the organizer of this series, I always finish my pre race talk with “Take care of your car, and take care of your fellow drivers”.  
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by crich88848 » Fri May 03, 2019 9:59 am

I know how this feels. I dealt with it all last season. This season, I don't take any risks on lap one. I'm easy off the start, break early into the turns and am coming out of almost every race alive now. I lose a couple positions, but make them back later on. We have to take responsibility for ourselves. I guarantee everyone could do something different to avoid these incidents. I'm trying to focus more on myself these days and what I can do differently and how I can improve my race craft to avoid these situations, rather than focusing on what someone else should have done differently.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by CajunGrit » Fri May 03, 2019 12:16 pm

Just want to chime in to jump on the smart driving bandwagon. I spent the first half of this season trying to be racy with disastrous results. The past two weeks i decided to go back to my roots and focus on keeping it clean at all costs and so far I’ve ended up with two top 10’s.

Judging from the rate of attrition all season long, i think it simply comes down to the Radical being more car than the majority of us can handle. I don’t believe we would be having so many incidents if we were still in the skippy. So here’s to us trying to hold it together for another 3 races and then moving on to a car that we can hopefully keep going in a straight line next season.

Stay safe out there.
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Re: Round 7: Road America - Full Course (02 May)

Post by DeamingPie » Fri May 03, 2019 12:25 pm

CajunGrit wrote: Just want to chime in to jump on the smart driving bandwagon.  I spent the first half of this season trying to be racy with disastrous results. The past two weeks i decided to go back to my roots and focus on keeping it clean at all costs and so far I’ve ended up with two top 10’s.  

Judging from the rate of attrition all season long, i think it simply comes down to the Radical being more car than the majority of us can handle. I don’t believe we would be having so many incidents if we were still in the skippy.  So here’s to us trying to hold it together for another 3 races and then moving on to a car that we can hopefully keep going in a straight line next season.

Stay safe out there.

I agree on all accounts.  The Radical is difficult to drive, but even in the most difficult cars one should be able to drive within the limits (most of the time).  It doesn't help that if you sneeze in this car you get 15 minutes of mandatory repairs and 4 hours of optional repairs.
  
1 x
2019 stats - 48 race starts, 46 DNFs

"You've been racing with your foot on the brake? What are you, a Florida F*&^ing blue hair?" - Wife

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